Person A and person B have to do the same exact task e.g. fix a car or whatever. It takes person A one hour to do the job. Person B is more skilled and experienced, and thus can do the exact same job in 30 minutes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but by your logic I understand that person A should be paid double of what person B is paid, because they gave double of their equally important time. One could argue that since it’s the same job being done, they should be paid the same. I would argue person B deserves even more pay for the exact same job that person A did, because they SAVED time. I agree time is valuable, thus doing a job faster is more valuable than doing the exact same job but slower.
Your ability to completely de-humanize janitorial work says so much about you. Heart transplants cannot happen unless someone sweeps the floor.
Every job is important. Every job matters. Someone working at McDonald’s matters to that surgeon who shows up at 2am after a 16 hour day and needs food.
Your ability to completely de-humanize janitorial work says so much about you.
cool strawman bro. Saying sweeping up dust is less important than saving a life is not saying “and you’re a worm if you ever sweep a floor”. I’ve had to sweep the floor at almost every job I’ve had, it was never as important as someone’s life.
I love how people tell on themselves by projecting their own prejudices and then get mad at the person they did it at, as though they had anything to do with the process
“ah but what if I change the example you used to a different example”
ok man have fun playing with your strawmen. Sweeping the floor of a warehouse is still not equally as important as life saving medical work. People who detail cars are not as important to society as paramedics.
There’s no straw man, but. I’m not inventing a narrative. Every job is important.
Just because you don’t think people who sweep floors matters to society doesn’t change my opinion.
Sweeping the floor of a warehouse is still not equally as important as life saving medical work
That warehouse could contain medical supplies. They could contain parts to build trucks that will transport medical supplies. That warehouse could contain equipment to build the medical devices that the surgeon could use.
You’re just someone who deems worth based on what they do in completion, not that work and society all works together as a giant organism. And to look down at anyone who does manual labour as less than someone who saves lives is extremely sad. You should be ashamed.
That is not what I said. That is another strawman.
You said EQUALLY important. I gave you examples of jobs that are not EQUALLY important.
That warehouse could contain medical supplies. They could contain parts to build trucks that will transport medical supplies. That warehouse could contain equipment to build the medical devices that the surgeon could use.
It didn’t it was mostly garbage fast fashion $5 shirts made to be worn once and thrown out.
. And to look down at anyone who does manual labour as less than someone who saves lives is extremely sad. You should be ashamed.
Fuck you quit projecting. I was using my own work as an example kiss my ass. YOU are the only one conflating the value of someone’s labor with their value as a human.
You’re just someone who deems worth based on what they do in completion, not that work and society all works together as a giant organism.
yeah and the heart is more important to the organism than the little toe. some parts of a system are more critical than others.
You wouldn’t sweep an OR you would mop or squeegee. Kinda like the example I used was ‘sweeping a floor’ and not your straw example of ‘sanitizing a surgical theater.’
You are not required to judge the value of work based on its output. While some types of work may produce output that is relatively more beneficial to society than is other work, a society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. This is the core tenet of Marxism. It’s entirely a matter of which paradigm you choose to accept. There is no right answer to this question, only reflections of what you value.
society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output
Beliefs won’t feed you. Raw output won’t feed you either. What feeds you is an output of things society actually needs. There’s no reasonable way of gathering information of what every single member of society needs, worse some members will lie to get more resources than they should. That approach has fundamentally unsolvable problems
The problems you list are solvable, but you have apparently lacked the intellectual curiosity to investigate how they can be solved. I won’t debate the basic tenets of Marxism with you because it will take too much time and effort, and I have no way to know if you’re genuinely interested or just another troll. But you can find numerous reading lists here if you want to understand.
The problems they listed are unsolvable, but you have apparently lacked the intellectual curiosity to investigate why the supposed solutions would not actually work. I won’t debate the basics of the impracticability of Marxism in large and interconnected societies with you because it will take too much time and effort, and I have no way to know if you’re genuinely interested or just another troll.
It isn’t.
It is. It’s TIME.
One hour of your life isn’t more precious than one hour of mine.
Person A and person B have to do the same exact task e.g. fix a car or whatever. It takes person A one hour to do the job. Person B is more skilled and experienced, and thus can do the exact same job in 30 minutes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but by your logic I understand that person A should be paid double of what person B is paid, because they gave double of their equally important time. One could argue that since it’s the same job being done, they should be paid the same. I would argue person B deserves even more pay for the exact same job that person A did, because they SAVED time. I agree time is valuable, thus doing a job faster is more valuable than doing the exact same job but slower.
What work isn’t equal to others?
Sweeping the floor is not equal to doing a heart transplant, stop getting lost in platitudes and get a grip.
Your ability to completely de-humanize janitorial work says so much about you. Heart transplants cannot happen unless someone sweeps the floor.
Every job is important. Every job matters. Someone working at McDonald’s matters to that surgeon who shows up at 2am after a 16 hour day and needs food.
cool strawman bro. Saying sweeping up dust is less important than saving a life is not saying “and you’re a worm if you ever sweep a floor”. I’ve had to sweep the floor at almost every job I’ve had, it was never as important as someone’s life.
I love how people tell on themselves by projecting their own prejudices and then get mad at the person they did it at, as though they had anything to do with the process
I have a prejudice that I believe every job is important and every job is worth doing? And every job is required for other jobs to succeed?
When the fuck did I find myself back on reddit?
It could never have happened without someone cleaning the operating room.
Serious question. Are you intentionally being dense? Or just come by it accindently?
“ah but what if I change the example you used to a different example”
ok man have fun playing with your strawmen. Sweeping the floor of a warehouse is still not equally as important as life saving medical work. People who detail cars are not as important to society as paramedics.
There’s no straw man, but. I’m not inventing a narrative. Every job is important.
Just because you don’t think people who sweep floors matters to society doesn’t change my opinion.
That warehouse could contain medical supplies. They could contain parts to build trucks that will transport medical supplies. That warehouse could contain equipment to build the medical devices that the surgeon could use.
You’re just someone who deems worth based on what they do in completion, not that work and society all works together as a giant organism. And to look down at anyone who does manual labour as less than someone who saves lives is extremely sad. You should be ashamed.
That is not what I said. That is another strawman.
You said EQUALLY important. I gave you examples of jobs that are not EQUALLY important.
It didn’t it was mostly garbage fast fashion $5 shirts made to be worn once and thrown out.
Fuck you quit projecting. I was using my own work as an example kiss my ass. YOU are the only one conflating the value of someone’s labor with their value as a human.
yeah and the heart is more important to the organism than the little toe. some parts of a system are more critical than others.
Noone’s gonna fucking die if you miss a spot when sweeping
In a hospital surgical room? Yeah they can.
Here’s hoping you’re just trolling, because I wouldn’t want to insult a lobotomite
You wouldn’t sweep an OR you would mop or squeegee. Kinda like the example I used was ‘sweeping a floor’ and not your straw example of ‘sanitizing a surgical theater.’
C suite work for example is completely useless.
The unnecessary one.
You are not required to judge the value of work based on its output. While some types of work may produce output that is relatively more beneficial to society than is other work, a society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. This is the core tenet of Marxism. It’s entirely a matter of which paradigm you choose to accept. There is no right answer to this question, only reflections of what you value.
Beliefs won’t feed you. Raw output won’t feed you either. What feeds you is an output of things society actually needs. There’s no reasonable way of gathering information of what every single member of society needs, worse some members will lie to get more resources than they should. That approach has fundamentally unsolvable problems
The problems you list are solvable, but you have apparently lacked the intellectual curiosity to investigate how they can be solved. I won’t debate the basic tenets of Marxism with you because it will take too much time and effort, and I have no way to know if you’re genuinely interested or just another troll. But you can find numerous reading lists here if you want to understand.
The problems they listed are unsolvable, but you have apparently lacked the intellectual curiosity to investigate why the supposed solutions would not actually work. I won’t debate the basics of the impracticability of Marxism in large and interconnected societies with you because it will take too much time and effort, and I have no way to know if you’re genuinely interested or just another troll.
See, others can do it too ;)
They aren’t. Every solution proposed by Marxists is fatally flawed.