The latter too closely resembles “American exceptionalism”

Yeah, I’ve always found the “Starfleet must always be in the right” mentality to be patronizing at best, imperialistic at worst.

Is there any evidence at all of the writers of the more recent series not having “freedom,” or of corporate interference in the shows?

I don’t think that planet was portrayed as a particularly idyllic place…

I’d say they took it even further than that - the reason they were in that all-too-relevant “past” to begin with was that they had travelled back in time to an inflection point that could lead to a global descent into fascism.

I think that arrogant, quasi-imperialistic has always been simmering in the background of the Federation, so I wasn’t too surprised to see them arguing over this - and, to be clear, the actual debate was always amongst the students. Vance was determined to convince the Klingons to accept asylum, but “compelling” them did not seem to be seriously on the table.

Esri Dax’s excellent critique of the Klingon Empire

That’s an interesting point. If I were to come up with a counter-argument, I suppose it would be that the Klingons’ readiness to do this ritualistic faux combat shows some growth - they’re willing to settle for performing their culture and feeling respected, rather than endure actual warfare. A smarter person than me could probably find parallels in many modern cultural practices.

It’s not as if the Burn expunged all records of Klingon-Federation relations and the Federation had to rebuild from illuminated manuscripts copied by monks.

No, but I don’t think there’s any era that we’ve seen in which the Federation would stage an act of aggression as a diplomatic overture. Even in this episode, no one seemed sure it was going to work (and it may not have, were it not for Ake’s personal connection to Obel).

the solution was that obvious.

I do agree - they probably telegraphed it a little too hard.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

They did say they had been using “dilithium reactors” on multiple worlds.

I think Darem’s biggest issue was his drive to be the best, and he pretty much got over that last week. Other than that…IDK, he’s a bro, and I think he behaved as a bro this week.

(no need for spoiler tags in the discussion threads!)

What’s not true, DS9 being syndicated?

That’s verifiable fact…hell, DS9 premiered several months before UPN even existed.

I have a small correction to what you’ve been told: like TNG before it, DS9 was syndicated. The first series to be exclusive to UPN was Voyager. That doesn’t mean cost isn’t a relevant issue, though.

Yeah, I thought both this and the “youth movement” angle of episode two worked well.

As the cadets start venturing out into fieldwork more, they shouldn’t have to make excuses quite so often. They can go find their own trouble, and Discovery will be undergoing a perpetual refit!

I think they’re probably fully aware, at least amongst their leadership. They’d already been offered the planet for free, after all.

I think it was about respect, not trickery.

The PD applies to all civilizations, but is more permissive with those that are already capable of FTL travel. When a species is out travelling the galaxy, you can interact and negotiate with them, but you can’t directly interfere with their business.

Caleb is leaning hard into the “pre-warp” side of it, as many fans tend to do, which is why he said those particular regulations don’t apply. He’s just conveniently ignoring the rest of the PD, assuming it’s still in force in the 32nd century.

Edit: I’m wrong - I was conflating Caleb’s argument and the earlier debate about returning to pre-warp times. Caleb’s argument isn’t explained, and we funny get to hear what he’s saying immediately before.

I think the debate club is exactly the place for the conversation - Vance and Starfleet are following the PD. They’ve made the offer, been declined, and are…well, not respecting it, but obeying it. The worst you can say about them is that they’re being persistent, trying to convince someone in the Klingon leadership structure to change their mind. That may be a little obnoxious, but I don’t think it violates any Starfleet principles to give it a shot.

That leaves the cadets to debate whether respecting the Klingons’ wishes is a good thing in this case, and I don’t think there’s any indication that the debate has any weight to it - it’s not going to affect Federation foreign policy.

I liked that “good” debaters tended to fall back on Federation law and Starfleet regulations, whereas the message is to continue to treat people with respect to their culture and identity (even if that identity is sometimes muddled).

it’s the obvious solution, and they should have thought of it so much earlier.

I do agree, but (a) Starfleet’s pretty out of practice with this stuff, and we saw in the premiere just how black-and-white they became during the Burn, and (b) if it doesn’t work out…well, you’ve got a botched “Vulcan Hello” on your hands, which isn’t great.

Respectfully, I think this is a bit of a retcon of the retcon.

“The Wounded” makes it seem like a fairly major conflict - certainly more than just “peacekeeping.”

Jay-Den has been a breakout character for me, so I’m looking forward to this one.

And yeah, it’ll be good to check in with the Klingons in the 32nd century.

I’ve been sitting on an essay concept for a few years now, all about how TNG was secretly (and unintentionally) about the end of an era of peace, and the Federation being shocked out of complacency.

The retconned Cardassian war (and to a lesser extent, the Tzenkethi conflicts) is the biggest challenge to address, but their very existence kind of supports the underlying notion that things were never as good as is popularly believed.

All of which is neither here nor there, and I think your point is a good one.

Honestly the point of the article seems to be that changing canon is secondary to telling a really compelling sci-fi allegory story.

I think that’s exactly the point, and it’s one that is often disregarded.

And to be honest, the sudden retcon of the Cardassian wars is not very easy to square with the way the Federation was presented in early TNG, existing in an era of unprecedented peace. “Contradiction” might be a stretch, but it’s inconsistent.