And also, at the moment, no trucks.
I swear, there’s a massive opportunity in the market for robust and inexpensive products.
Stop making shit as ‘thin’ as possible. Stop adding a bunch of nonsense just to drive up the price.
Keep it simple. Keep it basic. Do one thing and do it well.
Do one thing and do it well.
The philosophy behind UNIX! I love it. Thank you for sharing that, and I fully agree with you.
The approach outlined by your suggestion is likely to be much more environmentally friendly too.
Make it 10k-12k and it would be a yes if parts and repair ability were guaranteed for 10 years.
Yes, more of this please!
No idea why it has no stereo though. That feels like a pretty basic feature. Doesnt even need to be built in. Just iso standard head unit bay would do.
It’s backed by Bezos. Wouldn’t even consider it for that reason alone.
I’m sure, somehow, mostly everything is at least slightly backed by bezos
What else are you going to do? I hate Bezoz as much as anybody, but if I could actually get one of these for 25k? I’d buy three of them just to keep around for emergencies.
Just not buy one?
I second that. How about we tax Bezos and Musk et al. into “just” millionaire status and then fucking have parties without these Bezo-trucks.
The design is bad. The front trunk is a bad use of space, and the Japanese figured this out decades ago with the Kei truck. If you want to see real utility, look at this design.
They don’t make electric Kei trucks though.
The front trunk is a safety feature called a crumple zone and is objectively safer to be in a crash with.
Hm. Interesting point.
Maybe as we move our economy away from cars, and people dont all have to be drivers, we could also move away from cars that are poorly designed specifically around bad drivers.
Kei was recently found to botch all of their safety test scores for many years. As another commenter said, any crash in that design is guaranteed life threatening without some type of buffer.
If theres anything Ive learned from the fire departments insistence to have big wide roads so that they can shave off nano seconds to their response time, sometimes theres bigger things than persieved immediate safety to the individual.
For example, if we all drove Kei trucks slowly on small roads, a collision would not be as bad as driving a big safety focused truck at 80mph.
Still, your point is well taken. Maybe there are some ways to make safe small vehicles, including trucks, that arent explored yet.
You need infrastructure to actually support an alternative, otherwise cars are a necessity for many people to get to work and the grocery store.
Yeah, it would be nice to not need cars. I feel like this is a step towards function and away from vanity. Which is a good thing, even if it’s not the end goal.
That is true, except I’m talking about utility primarily. Garbage trucks already fulfill the design I’m mentioning and are used daily in most cities already.
People in garbage trucks don’t experience the same magnitude of force in a crash of equal speed, even without crumple zones, for a few reasons:
- Sheer mass of the garbage truck means that the same amount of momentum transfer results in less force to the humans inside. A garbage truck might weigh literally 20 times as much as a kei truck, which means that an abrupt collision will transfer 1/20 as much impulse to the passengers (as most of the force goes into changing the speed of the truck). Even collisions with still objects (trees, walls, poles) result in less force on the passengers, as a lot of the energy ends up deforming or disintegrating that stationary object as a crumple zone.
- Driver/passenger height in a garbage truck is generally above where the collision/deformation occurs. The passenger compartment isn’t under as much crushing force in a garbage truck crash compared to a kei truck at normal human height.
- The height of a garbage truck gives a lot more physical structure to dissipate the forces in a crash.
So the exact same shape/proportions of vehicle can be vastly different safety when large versus small.
Are you saying that because a heavy duty, highly specialized, utility vehicle, doesn’t have a crumple zone that the Slate truck is a bad design?
In my view the Slate truck is designed as a work vehicle. It’s for people who need to both hual things, and have a place to store tools. It’s trunk is perfect for that.
The Kei, and box trucks that we have in the US (which would have been a way better example for you to use.), are great for delivery vehicles. Jobs where you load things up and come back with an empty truck.
There’s a place for both form factors. The Slate is not a bad design, it just doesn’t fit what you think the use case for a small truck is.
Except that driver and passengers are above most crash situations. That is a cab over truck. The Japanese mini truck you referenced is a forward control. Different things , actually.
That’d be fine too. What’s your point?
European vans are probably the safest of utility cars, they don’t have a front trunk.
I did an image search for “European utility van” and everything I saw had a front engine compartment as a crumple zone. So I’m not sure what point you’re taking to make here.
Counterpoint: One of the first things people buy for a truck is a container for the bed for things they don’t want to be in the weather but also not in the cab.
A front-trunk eliminates this need which also frees up bed space.
Exactly, you can usually tell someone actually needs a truck if it’s got a stainless box behind the cab. Obviously there’s still people who cosplay as truck drivers that will have them too, but there are other signs you can use to tell them apart.
Front trunks save lives in collisions though. I’d 100% rather be in a vehicle with a hood between me and another car, and I say this as an avid kei-truck fan.
Americans won’t buy a Kei truck though. Granted, the frunk is a marketing concession, but it’s a fine one, if it can help push the market away from huge and expensive SUVs.
Or, more succinctly, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Americans can’t buy them new because of the so-called Chicken Tax. We can only import them if they’re speed-governed, or at least 25 years old.
Even with those restrictions, lots of Americans want them, including me. There are quite a few importers bringing them over, including one that just started up in my area. They’re desirable enough that major media outlets are running articles about how people who need to get real work done covet kei trucks.
Yes, Americans would buy them. Americans are buying them.
It’s not the chicken tax itself, even if it plays a role. It’s that the chicken tax makes it not economically feasible to try to import light trucks, so they aren’t designed to U.S. emissions and safety regulations. And several U.S. regulations are, in my opinion, misguided, but that doesn’t really change the fact that an importer wouldn’t be able to comply with vehicles that weren’t engineered to those specifications.
Meanwhile, the cars and trucks engineered to American safety and emissions regulations face the perverse incentive to get bigger. This article describes some of the overall issues but contains this interesting nugget:
That’s a sensible recommendation. Except the 3,000-pound 2010 Ranger featured by IIHS has become the bigger and taller 2024 Ford Ranger, which weighs up to 5,325 pounds. Like so many US cars, the Ranger got supersized, a trend fed by a mix of consumer desires and government regulations that carved out gas efficiency loopholes for the trucks and SUVs that make up a swelling share of the US vehicle fleet.
In a sense, the trend of people wanting kei trucks paradoxically comes from the same reason why they’re not street legal: they didn’t get bigger because they weren’t subject to U.S. regulations pushing trucks to get bigger, but the noncompliance with those regulations makes them impossible to import and register (at least until they’re 25 years old).
You’re correct, my memory took a shortcut. Thanks for the very thorough explanation!
Yep, the Chevrolet Bolt is the closest I could get to a Kei van.
Americans won’t be able to afford anything anyway pretty soon.
Forward control trucks, like that Kei truck are shit in so many respects, it would take a while to list. Source: I’ve owned one of it’s larger siblings and learned to hate them (being 187 cm tall didn’t help)
I have owned a Nissan vanette, And let me tell you, it’s a van-full of nope! Steering is super weird, as the wheels are under you, the feeling that your knees are going to be what crumples in a crash is unnerving, having the engine right next to you (it’s between the front seats) is smelly, warms up one of you thighs, but just one, even in the summer, and a slew of other shit. Standard layout for me, at least Eurovan layout.
Yea but we’re talking about electric vehicles now, no engine block.
Crazy how so many people have been begging for bare bones, affordable electric vehicles.
Then when one comes on the scene they do nothing but complain. Can’t please anybody these days it seems.
Edit: sp
It’s a great concept, but it has blinding LED headlights and automatic high beams
instant fuck off
Part of the problem is they exist, but not in America. Ford even makes a small EV hatchback in Europe.
They claim 20k, which is nice, but noone will believe it will stay that way. Given the [gestures broadly to everything] they likely will need to find an non-lithium based alternative battery before the reserves run dry, the price sky-rockets and then would-be buyers deal with scalper prices (not like thats much different than going to a dealership anyway).
This would have been a smash hit in 2022, but now its too little, too late.
The 20k is after government incentives, definitely not permanent pricing. Lithium isn’t scarce in the US, at least. The McDermitt Caldera reserves are quite substantial. More than half of the world’s total supply.
Its range is also only 180 miles. The smaller battery definitely helps keep the cost down.
This car might not be for me but I definitely see its value and hope they’re successful.
20k after 7500 tax incentive. So 27,500 approximately. Cheapest EVs are I think 29k right now. So this is well within the realm of possibility imo. It will probably go up a bit by the time it makes it out the door. And probably no one will get the barebones model and spend 2-3k at least on accessories.
Odds are they’re not the same people, but I see your sentiment.
The moron refusing to buy it just because it’s backed by Bezos clearly has no idea about the world he’s living in.
I hate that Bezos backed them
When you got unlimited money, you have a finger in everyone’s pie. An unfortunate reality.
Rich people’s money and actual dark illegal money is intertwined in our economy. The economy would probably collapse without it.
I wonder how this could be fixed?
If you taxed the rich would it work best to do it gradually? Also would that give cartels and organized crime advantage? Would you have to tackle both?
I wonder if in doing so without doing it gradually would be as messy as what the Trump admin is doing now?
Removed by mod
Stop being an asshole.
Removed by mod
he knows people will want it 🤷
Lost me at “American”.
I find this minimalism strangely appealing. Unfortunately, I do not live on a farm. I hope this thing is useful to those who do, though.
I pretty much do and I’m kinda stoked, cautiously
If I can have a Linux truck that works and can tow something if need be… I’m down
Linux truck
And has to resemble the late 1970s-1980s body styles because of the kiss methodology. I’d love me a 1972 C10 or a 1981 F150 with Debian.
Oh fuck yeah
Sudo unlock drivers-door
Imagine turning on the engine and the A/C via SSH on a hot day, remotely from the office.
I live in a rural area and need to do truck stuff frequently (ex. We have no trash pickup and have to haul it ourselves to the dump). Something like this is very appealing to me. I could also see this being useful as a fleet vehicle that doesn’t really leave campus grounds (think facilities/grounds/maintenance).
Already tired of seeing this cool car and now I’m already seeing more “fuck car” articles and post; as well as countries wanting to limit cars on the road. Something is at foot
no touchscreen
Sounds like a dream. Or public transport. It doesn’t have touchscreen either.
Or public transport. It doesn’t have touchscreen either.
Do you live in a stone age or something? The first time I saw a touch screen on a bus built into the backs of the seats was like 12 years ago or so. Pretty much all long distance public transport has them these days, apart from low cost airlines like Ryanair.
Probably depends on where in the world you travel and if you travel long distance at all/often.
I have also never seen a touch screen on a bus or train, only one time on a plane a long time ago.
Is it a networked surveillance nightmare?
It doesn’t seem to come with any gadgets. No touch screen, not even a radio. It’s possible that it still broadcasts location data and it’s possible they could hide a mic to record audio as well. But it isn’t connecting to your phone with Bluetooth, it can’t exploit the Bluetooth connection to scrub your messages and socials. So it’s a LOT better than most new cars.
Less reason to believe that it is than most cars that literally market themselves as connected
No stereo is fine if it has ports for me to just buy my own car stereo kit and add it afterwards. I don’t see the point of no paint, like don’t you need it to protect the metal from the environment
It’s no paint because the body is plastic. It’s not even black plastic coated grey. Just grey plastic.
I see, are there any other all plastic mass market cars out there, I’m just not sure how that material holds up in terms of wear and tear and accidents
Look up Saturn plastic body panels. The hood, roof, and top of the trunk we’re still metal.
I had one as my first car. I got rear ended once, and the plastic parts were mostly fine (a little paint chipped off), but the metal top got bent. The trunk itself worked and I never fixed the metal.
Edit to add: the car was made in 1999, I think I bought it in 2008 and had it for about ten years. I got rid of it because the electronics were getting gremlins. Neither the paint on the plastic or metal panels had issues except for the mentioned fender bender.
Saturn used to have door panels set up in their dealerships and encouraged kids to jump on them. I was one of those kids.
We need to move back to demonstrations like this.
“No touchscreen” is a really great selling point imo
Every smart feature a vehicle *doesn’t *have is a selling point for me. I want my car to be dumb as a boot.
Yep, the more software it has, the less I want it. And I’m saying that as a software engineer.
Nothing made me want to distance myself from technology more than going back to school for computer science.
…well that and all the fascism espoused by tech CEOs.
Well, I want smart boots
After reading the article and the website, I can’t find anything that explicitly says there is no network connection built into the vehicle.
The instrument panel is a screen, and will be used to display the backup camera video. There is some computer capable of handling video processing and displaying the instrument graphics - so more than just low-level electronics to handle the battery and drive control. It could have built-in GPS, it could have 5G, it could still be collecting and sharing data on driving habits &etc, it could be subsidized by that on the backend. Just because those functions aren’t displayed to the end user doesn’t mean they aren’t in the system.
Oh yes I was not commenting on any of that. Data privacy and the reliability of computer hardware and software over time are separate issues.
I was just speaking from the basic-level user experience of operating a vehicle- touch screens are terrible. Pretty much everything you want to do in a car should have 3 requirements:
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Keep your eyes on the road. Controls need to be in consistent locations and have some other way of communicating what they are and what their status is non-visually. Dials, knobs, buttons that lock in-or-out, switches, levers, sliders. Anything close together needs to be differentiated- buttons with different textures, shapes, or resistance for example. This is very difficult and almost antithetical to touchscreens. The strength of the touchscreens is their flexibility- they can have deep menus that re-use a small amount of space efficiently, but the trade-off is that they need the user’s vision to work.
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Non-visual feedback to the user for their activation. Touch screens CAN do this with haptics and sounds. And there are physical inputs where this can be a problem, like regular buttons or knobs with uniform shapes. Levers, sliders, switches, and dials have this as inherent properties
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Response time. Touch screens on vehicles are usually underpowered and seem to take seconds to register an input, then apply it. If the music changes and is suddenly way too loud, it’s annoying to be subjected to that for 5 seconds while navigating the touch screen and waiting for it to work, in contrast to a regular old volume potentiometer that operates basically instantly. Really any music or audio controls can get really annoying with delay, though I’ll admit those are a luxury. Things like the lights are not.
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Not a requirement, but cars should be judged on whether these things FEEL good. Touch screens have improved slightly over time with better materials and haptics, but that only applies to higher-end ones and still isn’t great. Cheap physical inputs can suck too, though they are usually still better than touch screens.
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Everything you describe could be handled by a single ESP 32 module but they probably do have much more computing power than that.
Other articles seem to indicate that it would need you to use your phone to perform updates on the onboard computer.
I guess this doesn’t preclude the possibility of other types of embedded surveillance.
Hoping it doesn’t have tracking 🤞
If they also make a 4wd version in the future then this would basically be the first new car I’d consider buying.
Edit: I emailed them and they said it doesn’t have any data collection at all.
The vehicle will absolutely collect data, but likely won’t be transmitting or collecting personal data (which is mostly done within vehicle infotainment units). It’ll be stored within the hardware which is much more preferred but I’d still consider that “data collection”.
Most vehicles have an Event Data Recorder (EDR) which records and stores vehicle data in the event of a collision/abnormal operation above a certain threshold. They’re mandated in many countries. You can connect to these systems, some easier than others, and get vehicle data such as vehicle speed, accelerator pedal position, brake activation, changes in velocity, yaw rate, steering wheel angle, steering wheel angle rate of change, ABS/TC activation, number of ignition cycles, odometer readings, etc. Newer vehicles with enhanced safety systems (of which this vehicle doesn’t sound like it’s intended to have) can provide even more data including but not limited to proximity to a target object and camera images.
It’s not data in the sense of personal or tracking data, but it’s still data.
I fucking hate the touchscreen in my vehicle.
I dont mind a secondary 8" screen for things like navigation as long as there is no control over functionality of the vehicle on said touch screen.
My 2016 Veloster has a perfect balance
