Yeah here we go. Six months before an election we crank up the sirens that another way not only exists (despite it not existing), but that it’s clearly folly to support the one progressive option that’s actually on the ballot.
Actually, you can just vote for a progressive in the primary instead of a corporate democrat who will do effectively nothing against the GOP and won’t prosecute anyone in the Trump administration and fail just like Reconstruction. Crazy, isn’t it?
Okay, vote for progressives all you can. Do anything you can to convince other people to get actual progressives in the running. Print flyers, organize events, go door to door if you have to. If that all still fails and we’re stuck with the choice to ratchet to the right or stay where we are, then goddamn make the vote to stay where we are and do everything you can to try to ratchet to the left again. Pretty fucking simple choices
You’re talking to the wrong person. Every single one of my progressive friends hates the DNC with a passion. They do all of that PLUS they voted for Kamala still.
Maybe don’t treat all of us like we’re marxist-leninists for a change?
I see your account is a few months old, but trust us - the marxist-leninists (and Other) are very much in all these threads. It’s not a reach to go from “DNC sux” to “refuse to vote! Seize the means of production! Death to the bourgeoise!” It happens. Kind of a lot.
Okay, but to be fair, we should probably Guillotine the Epstein Class, and create employee owned businesses. Would probably benefit a lot of people.
As for voting, we will always need to vote. All governments are a monopoly on violence, and voting is one of the ways to direct that violence. It’s mine, and no doubt many others, preferred way of directing that violence. In opposition to dictators, kings, and other unelected versions of governance directing said violence.
So I do view those refusing to vote as naive at best, and dumber than a stump at worst.
Ok but your two realistic options for achieving those goals is either to pick up a gun and go do it yourself by force or to participate in our admittedly shitty system and put Democrats and specifically progressive Democrats where possible in power. So which ya gonna do?
Well considering people are being locked up in concentration camps, shot in the street in broad daylight, and the feckless opposition party constantly rolls over. Probably the gun, since I’ve already organized with my neighbors in case ICE shows up.
Glad I could clear that up for you though.
Edit: Oh and that’s a false dilemma since voting is also backed by guns, they’re just used by a third party so we can abstract away the inherent violence that allows a government to be a government.
Actual leftists spend the day working or volunteering. Internet Marxist-Leninists spend 16 hours a day on social media. That’s why it looks like they’re so numerous.
What I meant by that is that most leftists don’t have time to show their messaging to others because they can’t spend too much time in the internet due to having lives. MLs in the internet are mostly unemployed dipshits who spend every hour of their day they’re not sleeping attacking people on social media or wanking themselves off to theory written 150 years ago - that’s why it looks like there’s a lot more of them when it’s the complete opposite. They’re a statistical anomaly.
Primaries and local elections matter a lot. I don’t think the system is fit to survive long-term, but an engaged electorate would keep things going quite a while longer.
This argument would hold water if your wing of the party hadn’t tied the one guy to the tracks in the first place and didn’t have it in their power at the time to untie him. In any event, centrists blame anyone with even the slightest criticism of their beloved genocide regardless of how they actually voted.
Which centrists? You direct that at everyone who is, and who you think is, a “centrist”, without defining a set of positions you believe they have. Why are they all a genocide supporting monolith? Or are you taking people and assuming many things about them like another group tends to towards specific races?
Define, dont attack. Debate over argument. Conversation over debate. No reason to wreck your position with exaggerated responses and statements. The world isnt a strawman, my dude.
The leadership of the centrist wing of the party supports genocide. The centrist wing of the party continues to follow them, knowing full well what they’re doing in broad daylight. Genocide isn’t a dealbreaker for them.
It’s like how all the awful fascist racist shit trump does isn’t a dealbreaker for republicans. It says what you need to know about them.
The trolley problem is used to pretend harm reduction works, but if you extend the image, you’ll find all the ones tied on the bottom rail will be moved to the top rail, just spaced out so that one side can pretend they’re slightly better, even though they’ll end up killing the same people anyway. If you think it’s acceptable to let “the good guys” carry out a genocide, then you’ll find anything acceptable. Keep sacrificing one group after the other as you justify your harm reduction scheme.
“First they came for[…]” I’ll let you figure out the rest.
Also, the people who didn’t vote were mostly liberals. Every progressive I know, including every member of large progressive organizations, voted Kamala.
But also, thanks for essentially saying that you’d gladly sacrifice hundreds of thousands of brown people overseas to not have to deal with fascism. This is why the world thinks Americans are scum.
Now were sacrificing millions of brown people to let the fascists win in 3 separate countries and the US is directly doing one of them.
We’re not going to failure gambit our way to victory by letting the fascists win and showing the world how bad fascism is and everyone banding together and stopping fascism ones and for all.
The least bad option, if you assume we only have two options, also supports genocide. Maybe the stupid one is the one who plays along with this stupid game. You’re not going to break out of the game by playing within its rules, especially when the rules change any time a potential exploit is found. Slow torture with breaks is still torture.
The most popular 3rd party candidate in 2024 got a whopping 0.5% of the total votes cast. During an election when many people were disenfranchised from both primary parties.
I’m going to bold this for you.
THERE IS NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY IN THE UNITED STATES AND WON’T BE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME UNDER THE BEST CIRCUMSTANCES.
Maybe the stupid one is the one who plays along with this stupid game.
It’s not a game, champ. It’s reality. And you don’t seem to have a firm grasp on it. In reality, where two (and only two) parties have the potential to win, someone making an effort to be an adult understands that it is far better to go with the least destructive option. And, from your simple perspective, it’s not like we were choosing between a genocide party and a non-genocide party. From your simple perspective, they’re both genocide parties. On one hand you had one that was expressing their disapproval of Israel’s actions and floating arms shipment cancellations and trying to help broker a peace deal. And on the other you had a felon rapist saying “full steam ahead, we’ll make a resort out of Palestine when you’re done”.
Doesn’t take a lot of brain cells to figure that one out.
You’re not going to break out of the game by playing within its rules
Lol. You must be young. Want a revolution? That’s what you’re implying. Do it, kiddo. Be the leader. Be the change. Otherwise sit down and help the adults vote in the better option so we have better odds to reform our current system.
And if you believe that the odds of reforming this system are the same under Democrats and Republicans, then you’re a lost cause and there’s not much else I can say to you.
Then you go on to describe everything in terms of the election system we have in place specifically set up to trap you within these two seemingly (but not actually) different choices. If the system is specifically set up this way, then what makes you think the people who control the system will let us make any meaningful change? It’s clear they have overarching goals and they manage to make progress towards these goals regardless of which party gets in.
If these people knew anything about American history, particularly the voting history of both parties, they wouldn’t have the dipshit view of the situation that they do.
For the first time you lot have consequences for your imperialism, and yet you still refuse to learn a lesson from it. You get zero fucking sympathy from me. Ineffective, weak leaders is what leads to fascism. Those are the consequences of your actions. You can cry all you want, but all of those deaths are on YOU for consistently voting for leaders that haven’t changed their strategy since the 90’s and sabotage anyone trying to run on their party for positive change.
Also, you wanna learn something? Republicans now get significantly more votes from low attention, low engagement voters. Saying “We’re not Trump” doesn’t do anything for them. They don’t have loyalties. They don’t even bother researching. That’s why Trump was so popular with them, he had a direct message that reached them. Most Democrat voters are already highly engaged, and that isn’t enough to win elections anymore. As long as you refuse to court low engagement voters by actually delivering a message, you’ll keep failing.
Biden and Kamala are on record, multiple times, supporting Israel. The entire Dem corporate wing, instead of listening to all the people protesting, lambasted everyone as terrorist supporters and refused to stop sending weapon packages even with IDF soldiers literally posting their war crimes on Tiktok.
All America does is export death and destruction. This has been the rule for 80 years. No matter who’s in charge.
You deserve what you got. America was exposed for the merchant of death that they are, and you will never be trusted again. People will vote in progressives in the primaries, win, and YOU will be nothing but part of history.
There’s a reason everyone hates the US. There’s a reason everyone hates you. You’d rather have your option to go back to brunch and not think about all the brown people your party killed in collusion with the Republicans.
Do everyone a favor, and shove your politics up your ass.
What people think the person on the top rail is saying: oh please, kill me! I want nothing more than to die to save people in the country helping bomb my family!
I wish even more that the people who think like this could look at this and understand it. Too much critical thinking required. That or they’re just garbage people who want it exactly their way and are willing to burn it all down if they don’t get it.
The thing that really frustrates me is the entitlement of people thinking that both sides are the same, blah blah blah while meanwhile immigrants, LGBTQ people, Iranians, etc. etc. suffer because perfect is the enemy of better in their minds. The comic is unrealistic because typically the person watches the carnage smugly, claiming that it would have been just as bad if the Democrats were in power, as if 2024 were just as bad as now.
She was chosen because she was Vice President. Not that it matters much. People were furious that government lied about mental state of Biden that also was fucking obvious to everyone. They should’ve ran primaries but they claimed he’s fine and lost by putting the least voted candidate on previous primaries. Not even sure what they expected.
Doesn’t help that they also are constantly pushing back a legit good candidates.
You’d think people would vote for DNC to just not let Trump come back. And I can see why they would. But these constant lies, schemes and general situation in the country made many to not to go to the polls. Like if you know your team lies to you, but the other team also does and is fucking nuts, would you still give your vote for party that lied to you on many occasions? That didn’t listen to you to begin with?
After last elections if people see DNC as “the good guys”, that’s a Stockholm syndrome. It is time to change. And if DNC won’t listen to people, nothing will change.
Centrists sent the message to progressives that their votes were neither needed nor sought.
Until harris lost, then their perfect candidate was let down by the people who tried to kick the football and missed. After all, they pointed out how many times they tried to kick the football before and how many times it was yanked away. Which means they wanted trump to win.
The most popular 3rd party candidate in 2024 got a whopping 0.5% of the total votes cast. During an election where people were disenfranchised with both primary parties.
Yeah here we go. Six months before an election we crank up the sirens that another way not only exists (despite it not existing), but that it’s clearly folly to support the one progressive option that’s actually on the ballot.
Actually, you can just vote for a progressive in the primary instead of a corporate democrat who will do effectively nothing against the GOP and won’t prosecute anyone in the Trump administration and fail just like Reconstruction. Crazy, isn’t it?
Okay, vote for progressives all you can. Do anything you can to convince other people to get actual progressives in the running. Print flyers, organize events, go door to door if you have to. If that all still fails and we’re stuck with the choice to ratchet to the right or stay where we are, then goddamn make the vote to stay where we are and do everything you can to try to ratchet to the left again. Pretty fucking simple choices
You’re talking to the wrong person. Every single one of my progressive friends hates the DNC with a passion. They do all of that PLUS they voted for Kamala still.
Maybe don’t treat all of us like we’re marxist-leninists for a change?
I see your account is a few months old, but trust us - the marxist-leninists (and Other) are very much in all these threads. It’s not a reach to go from “DNC sux” to “refuse to vote! Seize the means of production! Death to the bourgeoise!” It happens. Kind of a lot.
Okay, but to be fair, we should probably Guillotine the Epstein Class, and create employee owned businesses. Would probably benefit a lot of people.
As for voting, we will always need to vote. All governments are a monopoly on violence, and voting is one of the ways to direct that violence. It’s mine, and no doubt many others, preferred way of directing that violence. In opposition to dictators, kings, and other unelected versions of governance directing said violence.
So I do view those refusing to vote as naive at best, and dumber than a stump at worst.
Ok but your two realistic options for achieving those goals is either to pick up a gun and go do it yourself by force or to participate in our admittedly shitty system and put Democrats and specifically progressive Democrats where possible in power. So which ya gonna do?
Well considering people are being locked up in concentration camps, shot in the street in broad daylight, and the feckless opposition party constantly rolls over. Probably the gun, since I’ve already organized with my neighbors in case ICE shows up.
Glad I could clear that up for you though.
Edit: Oh and that’s a false dilemma since voting is also backed by guns, they’re just used by a third party so we can abstract away the inherent violence that allows a government to be a government.
So you’re an accelerationist. That’s all anyone needs to know about you or your opinions.
Actual leftists spend the day working or volunteering. Internet Marxist-Leninists spend 16 hours a day on social media. That’s why it looks like they’re so numerous.
Yes… where do you think you’re commenting right now?
Tap for spoiler
The Internet
What I meant by that is that most leftists don’t have time to show their messaging to others because they can’t spend too much time in the internet due to having lives. MLs in the internet are mostly unemployed dipshits who spend every hour of their day they’re not sleeping attacking people on social media or wanking themselves off to theory written 150 years ago - that’s why it looks like there’s a lot more of them when it’s the complete opposite. They’re a statistical anomaly.
In the fanfic written by people who don’t want the party to ever move to the left.
Primaries and local elections matter a lot. I don’t think the system is fit to survive long-term, but an engaged electorate would keep things going quite a while longer.
That’s not the way it works.
We’ve seen exactly what happens to progressives in the primary.
The Democratic party is NOT democratic, see Sanders vs. Clinton.
Lots of progressives have won state congress/senate primaries so far. Those are what actually matter.
And the party never pulls any shady shit in the primaries, when they aren’t denying us primaries entirely.
I mean, a lot of progressives have been winning congress/senate primaries so far…
The party’s ratfucking isn’t always successful. But any wins are despite the party’s opposition, not due to a lack of it.
Save it for the general election, not the primary where it isn’t applicable.
This argument would hold water if your wing of the party hadn’t tied the one guy to the tracks in the first place and didn’t have it in their power at the time to untie him. In any event, centrists blame anyone with even the slightest criticism of their beloved genocide regardless of how they actually voted.
Everyone I disagree with loves genocide.
The context here is genocide and centrists’ refusal to abandon it.
Which centrists? You direct that at everyone who is, and who you think is, a “centrist”, without defining a set of positions you believe they have. Why are they all a genocide supporting monolith? Or are you taking people and assuming many things about them like another group tends to towards specific races?
Define, dont attack. Debate over argument. Conversation over debate. No reason to wreck your position with exaggerated responses and statements. The world isnt a strawman, my dude.
The leadership of the centrist wing of the party supports genocide. The centrist wing of the party continues to follow them, knowing full well what they’re doing in broad daylight. Genocide isn’t a dealbreaker for them.
It’s like how all the awful fascist racist shit trump does isn’t a dealbreaker for republicans. It says what you need to know about them.
The trolley problem is used to pretend harm reduction works, but if you extend the image, you’ll find all the ones tied on the bottom rail will be moved to the top rail, just spaced out so that one side can pretend they’re slightly better, even though they’ll end up killing the same people anyway. If you think it’s acceptable to let “the good guys” carry out a genocide, then you’ll find anything acceptable. Keep sacrificing one group after the other as you justify your harm reduction scheme.
“First they came for[…]” I’ll let you figure out the rest.
“Stop whining about a literal genocide!!!”
Also, the people who didn’t vote were mostly liberals. Every progressive I know, including every member of large progressive organizations, voted Kamala.
But also, thanks for essentially saying that you’d gladly sacrifice hundreds of thousands of brown people overseas to not have to deal with fascism. This is why the world thinks Americans are scum.
Now were sacrificing millions of brown people to let the fascists win in 3 separate countries and the US is directly doing one of them.
We’re not going to failure gambit our way to victory by letting the fascists win and showing the world how bad fascism is and everyone banding together and stopping fascism ones and for all.
I’ve got news for you: if you support genocide then you’re already a fascist.
Yeah supporting genocide is fascistic. So is letting Trump anywhere near the levers of power to accelerate 1 genocide into 3 genocides.
Choosing the least bad option is not supporting genocide, it’s practicing harm reduction. This makes sense to anyone not stupid or an accelerationist.
The least bad option, if you assume we only have two options, also supports genocide. Maybe the stupid one is the one who plays along with this stupid game. You’re not going to break out of the game by playing within its rules, especially when the rules change any time a potential exploit is found. Slow torture with breaks is still torture.
There is no assumption, genius.
The most popular 3rd party candidate in 2024 got a whopping 0.5% of the total votes cast. During an election when many people were disenfranchised from both primary parties.
I’m going to bold this for you.
THERE IS NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY IN THE UNITED STATES AND WON’T BE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME UNDER THE BEST CIRCUMSTANCES.
It’s not a game, champ. It’s reality. And you don’t seem to have a firm grasp on it. In reality, where two (and only two) parties have the potential to win, someone making an effort to be an adult understands that it is far better to go with the least destructive option. And, from your simple perspective, it’s not like we were choosing between a genocide party and a non-genocide party. From your simple perspective, they’re both genocide parties. On one hand you had one that was expressing their disapproval of Israel’s actions and floating arms shipment cancellations and trying to help broker a peace deal. And on the other you had a felon rapist saying “full steam ahead, we’ll make a resort out of Palestine when you’re done”.
Doesn’t take a lot of brain cells to figure that one out.
Lol. You must be young. Want a revolution? That’s what you’re implying. Do it, kiddo. Be the leader. Be the change. Otherwise sit down and help the adults vote in the better option so we have better odds to reform our current system.
And if you believe that the odds of reforming this system are the same under Democrats and Republicans, then you’re a lost cause and there’s not much else I can say to you.
Then you go on to describe everything in terms of the election system we have in place specifically set up to trap you within these two seemingly (but not actually) different choices. If the system is specifically set up this way, then what makes you think the people who control the system will let us make any meaningful change? It’s clear they have overarching goals and they manage to make progress towards these goals regardless of which party gets in.
I mean historically you’re absolutely wrong but go off, keep going with the even more genocide option, that’ll work out for you.
If these people knew anything about American history, particularly the voting history of both parties, they wouldn’t have the dipshit view of the situation that they do.
It wasn’t the voting that made the change, “but go off”.
For the first time you lot have consequences for your imperialism, and yet you still refuse to learn a lesson from it. You get zero fucking sympathy from me. Ineffective, weak leaders is what leads to fascism. Those are the consequences of your actions. You can cry all you want, but all of those deaths are on YOU for consistently voting for leaders that haven’t changed their strategy since the 90’s and sabotage anyone trying to run on their party for positive change.
Also, you wanna learn something? Republicans now get significantly more votes from low attention, low engagement voters. Saying “We’re not Trump” doesn’t do anything for them. They don’t have loyalties. They don’t even bother researching. That’s why Trump was so popular with them, he had a direct message that reached them. Most Democrat voters are already highly engaged, and that isn’t enough to win elections anymore. As long as you refuse to court low engagement voters by actually delivering a message, you’ll keep failing.
Genocide. We get it. Keep saying it and maybe you’ll make it mean more. We all totally believe Biden/Harris/Dems like genocide cuz you keep saying it.
Now we have a president and party that give way less fucks about genocide. Yay?
Biden and Kamala are on record, multiple times, supporting Israel. The entire Dem corporate wing, instead of listening to all the people protesting, lambasted everyone as terrorist supporters and refused to stop sending weapon packages even with IDF soldiers literally posting their war crimes on Tiktok.
All America does is export death and destruction. This has been the rule for 80 years. No matter who’s in charge.
You deserve what you got. America was exposed for the merchant of death that they are, and you will never be trusted again. People will vote in progressives in the primaries, win, and YOU will be nothing but part of history.
There’s a reason everyone hates the US. There’s a reason everyone hates you. You’d rather have your option to go back to brunch and not think about all the brown people your party killed in collusion with the Republicans.
Do everyone a favor, and shove your politics up your ass.
What people think the person on the top rail is saying: oh please, kill me! I want nothing more than to die to save people in the country helping bomb my family!
I wish I could upvote this twice.
I wish even more that the people who think like this could look at this and understand it. Too much critical thinking required. That or they’re just garbage people who want it exactly their way and are willing to burn it all down if they don’t get it.
The thing that really frustrates me is the entitlement of people thinking that both sides are the same, blah blah blah while meanwhile immigrants, LGBTQ people, Iranians, etc. etc. suffer because perfect is the enemy of better in their minds. The comic is unrealistic because typically the person watches the carnage smugly, claiming that it would have been just as bad if the Democrats were in power, as if 2024 were just as bad as now.
No we’ve been saying this since kkkopmala got the nomination WITHOUT A PRIMARY.
Disclaimer: I am not from US
She was chosen because she was Vice President. Not that it matters much. People were furious that government lied about mental state of Biden that also was fucking obvious to everyone. They should’ve ran primaries but they claimed he’s fine and lost by putting the least voted candidate on previous primaries. Not even sure what they expected.
Doesn’t help that they also are constantly pushing back a legit good candidates.
You’d think people would vote for DNC to just not let Trump come back. And I can see why they would. But these constant lies, schemes and general situation in the country made many to not to go to the polls. Like if you know your team lies to you, but the other team also does and is fucking nuts, would you still give your vote for party that lied to you on many occasions? That didn’t listen to you to begin with?
After last elections if people see DNC as “the good guys”, that’s a Stockholm syndrome. It is time to change. And if DNC won’t listen to people, nothing will change.
Centrists sent the message to progressives that their votes were neither needed nor sought.
Until harris lost, then their perfect candidate was let down by the people who tried to kick the football and missed. After all, they pointed out how many times they tried to kick the football before and how many times it was yanked away. Which means they wanted trump to win.
Yup.
The most popular 3rd party candidate in 2024 got a whopping 0.5% of the total votes cast. During an election where people were disenfranchised with both primary parties.