Religion is cancer, only thing is that I don’t pretend christianity is the reason why we have secularism, or why murder is illegal.
As an Iraqi, I feel like I need to address some extremely serious inaccuracies in the article:
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The Nine year-old marriage thing: This lasted less than a month and was cancelled due to the sheer amount of protest against it. I know, that’s still unbelieavable how it even reached Iraq in the first place. But this case happened far after the law was cancelled and is illegal, the family’s lewd business might have been a reason(?) Although sadly women’s rights are still limited.
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The case is even worse than the article interprets it: The man did not hide her in dirt, he literally dumped her in mud in the middle of a garbage place. And the police only arrested him after the evidence was very undeniable (They were allegedly bribed).
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The underage marriage and woman’s rights dismissing protest: This was a very small protest and many protestors there got their fair share of violence.
NOTE: I live in Baghdad, other cities might have different laws, but this article mentioned the incident was in Baghdad too, so maybe it was either not very recent, or maybe that lewd law got re-implemented and I just don’t know it yet.
thank you for adding context from a local,. one of the great things about this place
Thank you so much! I honestly expected to be in the negative score with people not believing me, but wow…
Maybe Lemmy is less harsh than Reddit afterall.
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Religion of peace, I see.
May she rest in peace…
The headline is misleading. The article is even worse.
The girl was not killed for refusing to marry. The girl ran away from home over the marriage (the strategy had worked for her to get out of her first marriage, at age 13). She was caught by a neighbor who did something bad to her (she did not want to say what and her family did not want to hear it). When her family found her 3 days later, they killed her for hiding at the neighbor’s house (despite the fact that she was taken there unwillingly).
All of this is in the article. I don’t understand why you have 40 people agreeing with you.
Why wouldn’t people up vote? The original comment said the main article was worse than the headline, and summarised why they thought so. What are you objecting to?
The…wrongness…The article is not even worse. The article says exactly what he claims it doesn’t. And regardless, the point is that she was ultimately killed because she tried to escape. The family’s justification is worthless, and irrelevant.
Worse as in the actions described are even more vile, not inaccurate.
The headline is misleading. The article is even worse
Those two sentences together cannot possibly be referring to the actions.
Can’t tap just scroll
And then these same monsters get all butthurt that there are people who hate them
I think there are cultural differences that we ought to tolerate and be mindful of our biases on (how you prepare food, the clothes you wear, difference in manners, accents, language, etc.) and there are things which are universal evils (murdering children for not marrying).
It is unfair to ascribe the latter to all people belonging to a particular culture (the “you people” comment), since “universal” evil goes both ways - all people should consider it evil, but it is not unique to a particular people. A strange duality. Reminds me of the dad who “accidentally” shot and killed his daughter in Texas after an argument about Trump and was never investigated.
to ascribe the latter to all people belonging to a particular culture
They said “same monsters” though so they’re specifically talking about the people who committed the murder not any larger group of people.
“Culture” =/= Oppression
Except somehow Muslim cultures are very tolerant of these evil acts. Makes you wonder maybe there is something in the culture that allows it and there absolutely is.
Primarily Islam is a prison religion and by that I mean that Quaran is a literal guide that is not up for interpretation like other cultural thought leads. The Bible is interpreted, the teachings of Karl Marx are interpreted, the Austrian school of economics is interpreted - this gives people an opportunity to self correct. Whila Islam is literal - there’s no space for justice.
Islam will never be as flexible and just as other cultural leads, period.
Shut the fuck up, imagine whitewashing racism.
You do realize that race and behavior are not intrinsically linked, right? Murdering and raping children are evil no matter who the hell does it.
You do realize the comment was not about this act, but about a set of people as a whole. No one has killed more children and raped more women than westerners in the whole history of mankind, so please stop with the crocodile tears.
lol. Source that claim please.
Cool story, you’re still excusing a murder
You’re too stupid to understand, so think what you want to think.
If you’re too dumb to know you’ve built a strawman, well, perhaps you should check for lead in your paint.
We’re all against white washing racism, but murdering women just because they refuse to be force marriage their cousins is wrong no mater what culture you speak of.
wrong no mater what culture you speak of.
Well, their culture is clearly OK with it. It shouldn’t, but it is.
Yeah that’s what we mean, no matter what murder is murder and mistreatment of women is mistreatment of women, no matter how you spin it via culture or religion. It’s fucked up
You’re clearly not against racism enough. The comment I posted was not about the incident, but how a basement dweller used this atrocity to justify his own prejudice against a group of people.
What exactly is “whitewashing racism”?
if I wanted to hear what an idiot had to say I would jam my Hands up your ass and puppet your mouth manually fuckwad
🫠 hot. Fist me, control me, degrade me, call me dirty names. You sure know how describe a good time.
Okay. I’ll fix OP’s comment.
“And then these same monsters get all butthurt that there are people who love the same gender”
You should also shut the fuck up.
I’m a man. I’ve had sex with another man. I’m also married to someone with a vagina, while I have two additional girlfriends, one of which has a vagina and one has a penis. My married partner is also in a relationship with a woman and a man, both of which have a vagina.
I hope to your own God this information upsets the fuck out of you and you think about this for at least a week.
I think the sperm that entered your mama’s was faulty, you do not have a single cell of brain matter.
Lol
After running away from her first marriage (she was married at 13). She finally got a divorce and then was told to marry her cousin who was literally coming out of prison.
How can someone care so little for their own kids. Absolutely vile.
For the same reason that American Christians would beat a gay person to death and then argue the gay panic defense in court.
They’ve been raised to believe that these made-up rules for their imaginary friend are a more important consideration than the reality right in front of them.
And gay hate is even explicitly laid out in the quran. It’s not a “fringe” thing in the least.
I would still feel sad that I had to kill my daughter to uphold those rules… Not fucking dance in the street. Unless it’s also in the rules: “and you’ll like it”. 🤪
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Nope. Thats just religious extremism for ya.
For example 36 white American Christians in Oklahoma just voted against ending child marriage and they quoted the Bible as their reason
"Rep. Derrick Hildebrant quoted Hebrews 13:4, questioning “Hebrews 13:4 – ‘Let marriage be held in honour among all.’ Does ‘among all’ now only mean those who are 18 and older?”
And here’s another white Christian proposing a bill to give the death penalty to woman who seek abortions. He serves on the board of a church in north carolina.
“The legislation, backed only by Republican state Representative Keith Kidwell, would classify abortion as first-degree murder and open the right of another person to defend the life of the unborn baby** as they see fit.**”
https://www.newsweek.com/republican-bill-deadly-force-stop-abortions-north-carolina-12005136
“Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
You do realize that “Christianity bad” doesn’t mean that “Islam bad” is false, right?
Both can be true at once.
I will however dispute that it is a question of extremism. The fact is that a majority of muslims, globally, hold views that I would consider to be misogynistic (feel free to update me on that if there is a more recent global study with the same scope).
If something is the norm in a group rather than a fringe idea, it can hardly be considered extremism. Given that Islam has many of these misogynistic values close to its’ core, it isn’t particularly shocking either.
As such, considering the above, I consider Islam to be bad on the whole. Note: this doesn’t mean that someone is inherently “bad” due to being muslim, or that “good” muslims don’t exist - I am acquainted with a few.
Christianity is barbaric, cruel and hateful
Judaism is cruel, barbaric and hateful
Islam is barbaric and hateful and cruel
They’re all fucked
What’s happening in the middle east would be happening regardless of their superstition. It’s a region that has always been unstable, and WWI & II resulted in the west trying to drag them into their sphere of influence to take the oil
But I’d like to see the people who did this burn slowly, as well as anyone in the world who thinks it’s ok
Yeah and they’re all pretty much the same religion they worship the same god of abraham and each version inherits older versions books, Christians revere moses and Muslims also revere jesus. Im not sure there’s much they actually disagree on besides various rules on eating meat.
Misogyny doesn’t automatically mean ritualistic murder, dude.
And yet in the long run doesn’t it?
Religious extremism is inseparable from religion. And the religion in question in that story about the murdered girl is islam.
Keith Kidwell
Jesus Christ, the writers are getting lazy…
That’s extreme ideology for ya.
If this passes I hope politicians that restrict pregnant women’s access to food, shelter, and medicine have their affairs in order.
That’s brainwashing for ya*
~25% of all humans are Muslim, do you seriously think every single one agrees with this?
A good example is that only a tiny part of Christians are pedophiles but you, based on the logic in your comment, think all of them are.
Islam isn’t the issue, extremism and shitty humans is. The vast majority of Muslims think this is just as fucked up as we do, because the vast majority of humans are just like us.only a tiny part of Christians are pedophiles
I’m pretty sure Christians are pedo at the same rate as the population at large. The issue there (apart from them being pedophilic) is that the Catholic Church has a tendency to protect them - forgive and forget, and all that.
Islam is enabling that behaviour in the very least.
No, that’s people brainwashed by ideology “for ya”. You don’t seem to have the mental capacity to process that, so just try to talk to people you disagree with more, and widen your horizon.
Religion is an ideology that brainwashes.
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How does this describe Islam specifically and not any religious group with fundamentalists?
This particular situation (from the news) is specific to islam.
Don’t feed the trolls
More of a question for the two dozen or so people upvoting the comments. Even if they’re trolling (and not just an islamophobe), there’s clearly a fair number of people that think these are reasonable opinions to hold. Getting people to think about the beliefs they hold is an important part of reducing -phobic behavior in general.
You’re right!
I’ll happily condemn any ideology (not just religious ones) that teaches people it is okay to force underage girls into marriage and murder them when they try to escape.
Did you have one in mind?
Were you aware that child marriage is legal in most of the US and attempts to close state level loopholes are fought tooth and nail, often successfully, by Evangelicals? The form of child rape we’re more familiar with isn’t better than people halfway across the world doing the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
And that makes said marriage good under islam? Or what is your point?
Yes, I was.
Disconnecting religion from law & institutions was a brutal process that took centuries here in Europe, and it is very disconcerting to see organized religion exerting an increasing influence in society. In the US it is less “freedom from religion” (like we have here) and more “freedom of religion” (please pick one).
As I said, you don’t have the mental capacity to process what’s wrong with your comment. Try to evolve a bit.
Stop being in denial, it’s all over most holy books, and especially the one that condoned this specific murder.
It’s a good thing we’ve got you here to tell people they’re stupid and should evolve.
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You’ll understand one day instead of whatever this is you’re doing here.
What is the difference? Religion is brainwashing.
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No, that’s people brainwashed by ideology “for ya”.
That’s just a long way of saying “islam”
Women in Iraq have been treated like absolute dirt and their literacy rates have plumeted from 99% under Saddam to around 50% last time I checked.
The breakdown of law and order is a direct result of American and Israeli interference and overthrow of Saddam after a decade of sanctions in the 90s.
Israel has been trying to crush Iraq for much longer and wanted it to be a failed state since the 1970s. Prior to Saddam even. This is the fate they want for all Arab countries.
Another disastrous Conservative outcome. They are always complaining about how incompetent government is, but it’s not the government that’s incompetent, it’s THEM.
I was curious and looked up adult women literacy rates for women in Iraq and this shows 64% literacy rate for women with 15+ years age in 2000 and 78% in 2021 for the same category. For female youths aged 15-24 it rose from 80% to 91% over the same time period (though in the intervening period that did indeed drop to 72-73% in their stats during the chaos of the Iraq War).
It’s great when people bring the receipts and take the time to source a comment. Seriously, thank you.
and this shows 64% literacy rate for women with 15+ years age in 2000 and 78% in 2021 for the same category
It’s a very thin data set. One entry for 2000. Nothing beforehand. Then nothing for 12 years that just happen to occur during the height of invasion and mass displacement of the population.
Wikipedia would suggest the literacy rate was high prior to 2000. After the invasion, there’s very mixed data, with high enrollment rates conbined with high dropout and grade repeat rates. But it’s an article plagued with dead links, so…
I don’t think it’s controversial to say the war and mass displacement resulted in declining standards for education.
It’s a very thin data set. One entry for 2000. Nothing beforehand. Then nothing for 12 years that just happen to occur during the height of invasion and mass displacement of the population.
I’m happy to see any data you have, that’s why I looked because 99% seemed incredibly high and the drop to 50% horrible and I wanted to check out that data. I agree this is sparse though it does ultimately come from UNESCO. There is a point on the 15-24 year old female youth graph for 2006 which is in the middle of that and another on 2011, which were the 72-73% I acknowledged. A decline of 8% for the youth until it started recovering in 2012 onward is what this particular source gives.
Wikipedia would suggest the literacy rate was high prior to 2000. After the invasion, there’s very mixed data, with high enrollment rates conbined with high dropout and grade repeat rates. But it’s an article plagued with dead links, so…
Where that Wikipedia article says “literacy levels were high” you can see that it also links to links to World Bank Open Data - the same source I used - except unsuccessfully. I would disagree that it was high based on World Bank Open Data though. If you look up global 15+ year old women’s literacy rates, the global average in 2000 was 76% so 64% in Iraq looks kind of bad comparatively.
I don’t think it’s controversial to say the war and mass displacement resulted in declining standards for education
I agree and that matches up with the drop in literacy rates for young women (whose ongoing education you would expect to be more affected by war in eight years of their childhood than for the adults). I was commenting just with respect to the stats because I was surprised.
Either way the war fucked up Iraq in ways that will take generations to fix.
I needed to look them up.
No they only want Palestine bro. Just one more bro.
That’s the amount of control over women that American conservatives dream of.
I think women should not flee from such households before doing a few necessary things to enact collective punishment on their collective opressor - the family - via suitable methods.
It’s not hard to figure out how to do maximum damage. The mistake of opressing a woman should be remembered in the family for decades.
Are you seriously man-splaining
How? There is nothing that prevents a woman from using fuel and matches.
I agree but it seems to me that they have so few rights that I think they’ve largely been rendered incapable in these fucked up families.
That is horrific.
Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for people that hurt kids.
Over 260k people killed in the Iraq War, mostly civilians, over $1 trillion spent, over nearly 9 years, just so we could have another Afghanistan.
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I feel you, but nobody can lose his right to exist because nobody should be allowed to make that decision. You are criticizing that they decided she was not allowed to exist and in the same sentence you take that right upon you top decide they should not exist.
To be frank: they need to be locked up, educated and reformed to protect society from them.
nobody can lose his right to exist
Rights apply to everybody, even people who don’t deserve them. I said they don’t deserve to exist, not that they didn’t have the right to exist. It’s an important distinction.
A person who doesn’t deserve to exist should thank their lucky stars that they were born in a time and a place when society will let them exist, anyways.
I can agree to that. :)
Yeah it’s easy to think that but I’d be wary of embracing that level of extremism. Colonial powers used similar arguments to justify the extermination of peoples around the world for centuries ie. “the civilizing mission”. Your framing is also indistinguishable from core frameworks within facism.
I agree with your anger but not with your worldview. People and cultures adapt over time, and I’d sooner do what I can to influence change in a culture for the better, before questioning whether one “deserves” human rights. But… that’s just my culture. Let’s hope it deserves to exist 🤞.
Your framing is also indistinguishable from core frameworks within facism.
In what ways, specifically?
The framing of whether a culture “deserves” to exist was a justification to pursue the extermination of Jewish and Roma people in fascist Germany, as one example. From that and other similar acts of destruction in the name of cleansing or purity came a new world order with the concept of inalienable human rights.
When you speak on the erasure of a culture, which is often an abstract set of ideas around which clear boundaries can rarely be drawn, you justify a collective punishment that is antithetical to this foundational idea.
Individuals should be held accountable for their actions according to the rule of law.
Saying that a culture doesn’t deserve to exist undermines the idea of inalienable human rights, normalizes ethnic cleansing and ultimately takes us back to a much darker period of human history.
I may not have lived through world war 2, but I am not keen on unlearning the lessons that were learned from it.
I can see why you said “framing” and “frameworks”, because that sort of vague criteria is really where any similarities end, but you went too far by saying that it’s “indistinguishable”.
I was talking about not just murder of a completely innocent child of their own blood, but of an entire clan’s celebration of the event by dancing. It’s the culture that birthed that reaction that is at fault. And all of those people dancing in the streets enabled that murder. There is no chance that the murderer didn’t know they’d get such a positive reaction.
The culture is wrong. It doesn’t deserve to exist. If they want to change their culture to get rid of the murder of and the celebrating of the murder of innocent children, then the previous culture which condoned those murders will have ceased to exist.
Just because fascists criticize cultures with harsh language doesn’t mean that any criticism of a culture using similar language needs to be shot down as having similarity to fascism. You can actually look at the specific allegations.
Ok let’s be precise with our language. What culture are you referring to? Do you have a name for it?
It simply is indistinguishable from fascism because ultimately the fascists decided which cultures were problematic, who was a part of them and therefore who “deserved” to be exterminated.
Your criticism alone isn’t what likens your view to fascism, its the language you chose, which implies a disregard for inalienable human rights that does.
Do you, the one who apparently decides which cultures are worthy and which are not, get to decide how a culture is defined and who is a part of it?
Who is a part of it in this case? Who would you like to erase? People that look like them, speak like them, worship like them?
We punish individuals for their actions according to the rule of law.
You may want to go back to a time when we judge individuals based on the actions of those we perceive to be similar to them. I do not.
I don’t know which culture youve come from to arrive at this worldview, but as problematic and regressive as it is, I still acknowledge your personhood / humanity. I seek not to erase it (despite its flaws) nor do I deem you or anyone “spawned” from it to be unworthy of existance. People, communities and cultures are often indiscrete and in a constant state of adaptation. This type of rhetoric belongs in an era that should be left behind.
Yours is the language that seeks to enable genocide. It normalizes the idea of punishing the many for the actions of the few based on vague, perceived similarities. Criticize all you want but be mindful of the words you choose.
Dude you can’t just accuse people of supporting genocide and shit when they’ve not done anything of the sort.
It’s not unreasonable for people to look at a mass of other people who are cheering on the rape and murder of their own relative and think “yeah, the world doesn’t need that lot”
He did though, which is why his comment was removed. Saying a culture “doesn’t deserve to exist” is neo Nazi rhetoric. He’s free to criticize these specific people, advocating for ethnic cleansing is indefensible though. Of course when asked to define the culture he deemed unworthy of existence, he made a run for it.
Ok let’s be precise with our language. What culture are you referring to? Do you have a name for it?
My language was precise. I said exactly what I intended to say. All you’re doing here is confessing that you began criticizing me without sufficient reason to do so, and now you need me to say something else that you might actually be able to argue against.
It simply is indistinguishable from fascism because ultimately the fascists decided which cultures were problematic, who was a part of them and therefore who “deserved” to be exterminated.
This is a straw-man. I never said anybody or anything deserved to be exterminated. Strange… if the language I used was actually that bad and “indistinguishable”, there wouldn’t be any need for you to change it, would there?
In your first two paragraphs, you have already managed to demonstrate twice that you have no intention of making an honest attempt at discussing the actual subject here. From where I’m sitting, you seem desperate to manufacture offense that you’ll take the side of a culture that celebrates the murder of an innocent girl, and try to paint critics of that culture as fascists.
I skimmed the rest of your comment. “erase” “punish” “genocide”. Yep. Lots of dishonest injection of charged language and strawmen. Sorry, I’m not even going to bother really reading the rest of your comment, as you’ve made your intentions here clear. I’ll just be blocking you.
Hey I made a fascist run away today, not bad.
Our species is the worst.
Thankfully, we seem to be intent on ensuring our environment makes us extinct.
Indeed. I’m so glad I never had kids.
On the flip side, I’m glad I did. They fulfill my life in more ways than I could have imagined.
That doesn’t make either one of us right of course, I’m glad you’re happy with your decision because I’ve met those in the past who regretted it. Mine don’t want them either, well at least for now.
What it does make us is CAMPIONES…sorry, wrong place.
How are you today anyway
I edited this too, I added a sentence in the centre
What kind of life are they going to have facing climate disaster, the end of democracy and the emergence of technofacism, but hey, you got yours, right?
Regardless what happens in the future I’ll wager theirs isn’t as miserable as yours, currently.
I hope your day gets better.
That’s the point, it’s likely going to get much worse.
For you
