I can’t even feel superior to everyone when theirs so many arch installers!! I use real arch btw. I thought “I guess I should go to Gentoo” but then wait, CHROMEOS IS A GENTOO INSTALLER!

I feel like we only have two options now

  1. Ascend to BSD-land
  2. Ironically supporting Windows Unironically

edit: I have decided to replace my debian laptop with BSD

  • DeltaWingDragon@sh.itjust.works
    2·
    2 days ago
    • Ascend to BSD-land. Start with FreeBSD.
    • Once that becomes mainstream, go to OpenBSD, then NetBSD, then the very-rarely-used DragonflyBSD.
    • Once that becomes mainstream (probably never, but still possible theoretically) switch to OpenIndiana, the FOSS version of Solaris.
    • Then you can go to something even weirder, like the obsolete IRIX, the mysterious Plan 9/9front/Inferno, or the Rusty alpha-stage Redox OS.
  • Hazor@lemmy.world
    23·
    4 days ago

    Haiku. It’s a reimplementation of BeOS.

    Alternatively, you could use ReactOS and make it look as windows-like as possible, and then go and post on Windows support forums with solutions to problems that work for ReactOS but not for actual Windows, and then play dumb while calling them dumb when it doesn’t work for them.

    I use arch btw.

  • cygnus@lemmy.ca
    981·
    5 days ago

    NixOS is the new Arch. I’m surprised nobody here has said they use it yet.

    • evol@lemmy.todayOPEnglish
      53·
      5 days ago

      Ive noticed this, arch almost just works but my nixOS friends are always complaining about something

      • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
        18·
        5 days ago

        Yessss…

        Come to Gentooooo.

        Come.

        Muahahahhahaha. *Lightning & Thunder!*

        • msage@programming.dev
          7·
          5 days ago

          Gentoo is easy and almost user-friendly.

          Specially coming from Arch it should be a breeze.

          Plan9 sounds like a more exclusive deal.

          • thejml@sh.itjust.works
            7·
            5 days ago

            As someone who installed Gentoo from nothing but a Stage 1 iso and kernel tarball back in 2003, this is crazy to read. I was able to squeeze so much performance out of a 300mhz embedded board back then though compared to most distros… after the 6hr kernel build.

            • msage@programming.dev
              4·
              5 days ago

              Stage 1 and 2 are no longer available (I mean technically you could, but it’s not suggested). Stage 3 was super easy, even with kernel from source.

              It takes time, sure, but it can compile on background. I got 16 threads on my CPU, so leaving 12 for emerge, I can still use the PC.

              I get that people joke about ‘days of compiling’, and maybe it’s real for a huge mass of packages, but even if, it doesn’t stop me from working.

              • thejml@sh.itjust.works
                4·
                4 days ago

                Remember, the days of compiling was back when we were running this on 300-500Mhz single core CPUs with 5400RPM spinning rust and RAM amounts in the hundreds of MB.

                The embedded system I was putting this on was a 300Mhz single core low power AMD processor with 256MB and a laptop 4200RPM 4GB drive. And yeah, it probably took over a day to compile everything… but it ran much faster than a stock kernel as I could customize the system to only have what it needed and leverage the on-chip ssl and video acceleration support. I used it for a NAS and home server for years.

                • msage@programming.dev
                  1·
                  4 days ago

                  I know, but that’s so long ago, yet the jokes are here anyway.

                  Which is shame, as it seems to be scaring away potential users.

          • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
            31·
            5 days ago

            Gentoo is easy and almost user-friendly.

            Specially coming from Arch it should be a breeze.

            Less prone to randomly biting your head off anyway.

            More tame.

            Takes more petting though, to get it to settle.

            • msage@programming.dev
              1·
              5 days ago

              Really?

              I never tried Arch, so I can’t compare.

              Apart from initramfs from install, which took more time, it felt like everything else just worked. Including installing Steam.

              • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
                2·
                4 days ago

                Really?

                Yes. Gentoo really is like that compared to arch.

                I never tried Arch, so I can’t compare.

                Oh.

                Specially coming from Arch it should be a breeze.

                That^ made it seem to me like you had.

                • msage@programming.dev
                  2·
                  4 days ago

                  I just read a lot of Wiki.

                  But when I discovered how cool it is to compile stuff, I went straight to Gentoo, assuming it’s mostly the same apart from packaging.

        • RogueBanana@piefed.zipEnglish
          7·
          5 days ago

          I use nixos and I do recommend it cause it’s cool. You will waste a lot of time, pulling hair trying to fix your config and regret all your life choices but guess what, it’s cool.

            • RogueBanana@piefed.zipEnglish
              1·
              4 days ago

              Simple? lol. It is easy if it works, a single command to replicate an entire system. But without an extensive upto date documentation like arch and having to learn a new programming language, it can be quite difficult for someone new.

        • GrapheneOSRuinedMyPixel@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          5 days ago

          After about a thousand commits in my config I no longer know how to do stuff the normal way. A few days ago I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to run python with modules without resorting to shell.nix

      • cygnus@lemmy.ca
        11·
        4 days ago

        I didn’t - I was just commenting on how its users are the new Arch users. It isn’t a compliment.

    • rozodru@piefed.socialEnglish
      5·
      4 days ago

      As a NixOS user…yeah don’t recommend it. Don’t get me wrong I absolutely adore NixOS but suggesting people switch to it when their current distro works perfectly fine for them is a disservice.

      NixOS makes the hard things easy, and the easy things hard. It’s incredibly frustrating trying to get something that should be insanely easy to work on NixOS. A good example of which is Neovim with Lazyvim. on every other distro it’s not a big deal, it should be easy to install right? on NixOS you’ll be pulling your hair out trying to get the meson tree-sitter crap to work correctly. Or you’ll find stuff that has been specifically re-packaged or put into a flake to work for NixOS. ok that’s fine, that’ll work on SOME peoples configurations but if yours is ever so slightly more unique it won’t. And then you start to wonder and question if your configuration is wrong but the thing is with NixOS there’s no right or wrong with the configuration. Some people will suggest you use flakes, some people will say don’t bother. Some will say you should put every single thing in modules, some will say don’t bother.

      So the problem is with NixOS is that when you start using it and understanding it going to another distro feels like you’re somehow reverting. BUT there’s the potential issue of getting stuck in the rabbit hole that is constant NixOS configuration adjustments to try and get that most perfect and smooth config out of your system. Currently I’m on Arch because I’m taking a “vacation” from NixOS. I have some important projects that are due soon and I just needed to get into a distro that will allow me to focus on them. In a couple weeks time however I know I’ll be back on NixOS.

        • BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org
          39·
          5 days ago

          If you are nostalgic for BeOS, then the elevator pitch is, “It’s Be, only on modern hardware and more software support.”

          If you are unfamiliar with BeOS, the pitch is: “Imagine an extremely lightweight desktop is with all of the things you would expect in a modern environment with none of the legacy. In an alternative universe, BeOS would have become OSX.”

          There are so many things that Be did right from the very beginning that other OSs have adopted, but never as cleanly as Be did it.

          For example, its file system. Most people don’t really notice or care about the file system, they all have directorys and hold files, maybe with permissions. BeFS does that as well, of course, but so much more. The entire file system acts as a database, so you can easily perform fast queries on it. You can also create virtual directories that are the result of those queries.

          You want a “folder” that contains every markdown file created after 2020 between 20 and 1000kb in size? Bam, instantly done and live updated whenever something accesses it. The files aren’t actually copied there, just appear there to normal tools, almost like soft links.

          BeFS also supports a resource fork system that it calls attributes. These can also be queried using the same database like tools as the rest of the system. File typing is done this way, every file gets a MIME type attribute and there is a daemon that sniffs them when a new file is downloaded or copied over.

          Even more, this allows some crazy things like plain text files that have font, color and other formatting elements because all that is stored as an attribute.

          Or their contact information app, which stores every person as a zero length file with details as attributes. You can create a virtual folder of all your contacts that meet a certain criteria and have other applications use that folder for whatever.

          Or the email app which stores each email as a file, and adds the basic metadata like to, from, subject, read, etc as attributes. Then you can have different virtual folders based on those. This also means that the basic file system browser is the default way to view email, because it supports all the attribute viewing, queries and such you would need. Or you can do it all from the command line using either basic cli tools or some slightly specialized ones.

          Combining attributes and virtual directories makes for a fantastic media library system, all built into the os for free. Imagine a directory that contains “Every metal song I have, from 1989 to 1993, that I haven’t played in three weeks” or whatever else you want.

          Back when people used files and all applications were local first, this was probably much more exciting, but it’s still pretty cool.

          • evol@lemmy.todayOPEnglish
            11·
            5 days ago

            The file system thing is really cool, are their downsides of implementing it like that? Curious why Linux would not implement something like that

            • BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org
              13·
              5 days ago

              I think there are a couple of reasons. First, the Linux kernel doesn’t support resource forks at all. They aren’t part of POSIX nor do they really fit the unix file philosophy. Second, most of the cool things that BeFS enables are very end user desktop oriented, and Linux leaves that desktop environments, not the kernel. BeOS was designed as a fully integrated desktop os, not a multiuser server os. Finally, I expect that they are a security headache, as they present this whole other place that malware could be stored. Imagine an innocent looking plain text file that has an evil payload sitting in an attribute.

              • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
                8·
                5 days ago

                First, the Linux kernel doesn’t support resource forks at all. They aren’t part of POSIX nor do they really fit the unix file philosophy.

                The resource fork isn’t gonna be really meaningful to essentially all Linux software, but there have been ways to access filesystems that do have resource forks. IIRC, there was some client to mount some Apple file server protocol, exposed the resource forks as a file with a different name and the data fork as just a regular file.

                https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/filesystems/hfsplus.html

                Linux does support HFS+, which has resource forks, as the hfsplus driver, so I imagine that it provides access one way or another.

                searches

                https://superuser.com/questions/363602/how-to-access-resource-fork-of-hfs-filesystem-on-linux

                Add /..namedfork/rsrc to the end of the file name to access the resource fork.

                Also, pretty esoteric, but NTFS, the current Windows file system, also has a resource fork, though it’s not typically used.

                searches

                Ah, the WP article that OP, @[email protected] linked to describes it.

                The Windows NT NTFS can support forks (and so can be a file server for Mac files), the native feature providing that support is called an alternate data stream. Windows operating system features (such as the standard Summary tab in the Properties page for non-Office files) and Windows applications use them and Microsoft was developing a next-generation file system that has this sort of feature as basis.

                • The_Decryptor@aussie.zoneEnglish
                  1·
                  4 days ago

                  It’s been a few years since I used a Mac, but even then resource forks weren’t something you’d see outside of really old apps or some strange legacy use case, everything just used extended attributes or “sidecar” files (e.g. .DS_Store files in the case of Finder)

                  Unlike Windows or Linux, macOS takes care to preserve xattrs when transferring the files, e.g. their archiver tool automatically converts them to sidecar AppleDouble files and stores them in a __MACOS folder alongside the base file in the archive, and reapplies them on extraction.

                  If course nothing else does that, so if you’ve extracted a zip file or whatever and found that folder afterwards, that’s what you’re looking at.

          • [object Object]@lemmy.world
            2·
            4 days ago

            Considering how the mainstream OSes dropped the ball on file metadata super hard without even approaching what you describe, exchanging files between Haiku and those OSes gotta be a pain.

            • BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org
              2·
              4 days ago

              Oh it absolutely is. Bringing files into Be is fine. The file type sniffer runs in the background and adds whatever metadata it can in a lightweight quick way. IIRC there are addons for specific file types like media files that add nice things like author, runtime, etc.

              Sending them out is a pain though. All the metadata is usually lost and from what I recall even emailing a file from one Be machine to another could be difficult. IIRC you could zip them and the metadata would make it, but raw files and tgz would lose it.

        • Limerance@piefed.socialEnglish
          4·
          4 days ago

          The excellent answer by @[email protected] already presented the cool features of the file system. There are a bunch of other interesting features found throughout the OS.

          Pervasive multithreading and multitasking makes Haiku very reactive and fast, even under load. Back when BeOS came out, the killer demo was playing several videos simultaneously without stutter. This is of course less impressive today, but you can fell this all over the OS when using it.

          Window management has two really cool features called Stack and Tile. Enabling you to stick windows together, so they move as one. On top of that you can put several windows from different applications together into one tabbed window bar . It’s super cool and unique.

          The biggest difference when using it compared to the big desktop operating systems today is that it gets out of your way and just lets you do things. Using it will make you realize how cumbersome the current desktop has become. Of course there are some security downsides, as there’s no pervasive sandboxing, rights management, and so on.

          Running on real hardware can be difficult because of a lack of drivers. I highly recommend trying it in a VM (VirtualBox, qemy, UTM) first. The increasing number of ports (mostly FOSS stuff you know from Linux) make this operating system actually practically usable. The ports don’t take advantage of the Haiku specific features, but are great overall. Especially the KDE apps are a good fit.

          Some people say it’s ready to be a daily driver even it’s still in beta, others say it’s what Linux used to be .

        • Eldritch@piefed.worldEnglish
          6·
          5 days ago

          If nothing else try it in a virtual machine for sure. Peripheral support can be spotty. One of the bigger hitches for me was getting a relatively up to date browser binary installed. I hear it’s getting better. I ran BeOS on a Pentium II back in the day. It was awesome.